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Author Topic: A VBAC isn't JUSTabout having a baby vaginally
Debby
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posted 25 October 2000 12:19 PM           Edit/Delete Post
I am the 'Debby' who has started helping Jackie with articles.

One of the things that I have noticed in all of the reading I have done on the various topics related to the safety and risks of various procedures is the notable absence of reference to the emotional well being of the mother.

I have a hypothesis that the high rate of post natal depression (PND) that seems to be around in women I have spoken to (both csec and not) is related to how we are treated in pregnancy and labour - particularly the first time.

I feel that many doctors view us as a 'problem to be solved', something they have to treat. They seem to forget that pregnancy and childbirth are a highly emotive functions for women, both due to the hormonal thing that is going on in our bodies and due to the personality of each individual. Given this we don't need treatment we need a guide and a friend during this period of change. Someone who can look our for our and our baby's physical well being but also someone who is there to reassure us, advise us, empower us and to help us realise we do have the power and self confidence, to be a pregnant mother, a birthing woman and a new mother to the little one we carry.

I was glad of my VBAC not because my baby was born vaginally (although that was a great buzz) but because my OB treated me with dignity, gave me information and accepted the learning I had done myself, and allowed me to make the adult decisions that I as a self confident adult woman should be able to make. I am pushy at the best of times so maybe the trauma of my first birth and subsequent education made this easier for me. OBs probably need to be more cognisant of the fact that many women (and men) are scared of authority and with the old 'knowledge is power' story OBs have heaps of it. The OB should therefore have consideration to how their attitude and actions can affect the emotional well being of the adult they are treating.

What do you think?


birthrites
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posted 25 October 2000 10:08 PM      Profile for birthrites   Author's Homepage   Email birthrites   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well said, Debby. One little issue I have with post-natal depression, especially in regard to c/section birth when the mother was not expecting to birth in this way.

I would like to point out that some women may actually be suffering PTS (Post Traumatic Stress) as a natural reaction to the trauma (emotional/physical) of the surgical delivery of their child. A support group such as Birthrites may help in that it encourages women to talk/email about their feelings and just 'let them all out' rather than bottling them up with the "What is your problem? You have a beautiful baby and you're both alive" attitude that they may come up against when they show these feelings to professionals, or even family and friends.

I think it is normal to grieve at the loss of the 'experience' of a vaginal birth. If we allow ourselves to experience this grief, then we allow ourselves to let it go and we start on our journey of emotional healing.

After my last c/section I started out crying everyday, or several times per day. Over time that grief eased, though it will never truly leave. It is so similar to what we feel at the loss of a special person... Never truly forgotten, always a vacuum present, but somehow the loss eases over time. A loss of such a vital life experience of birthing our children in the way we planned (one that we only repeat a couple of times, at most) can be just as wrenching.

How do you think we could cope with the loss of a friend/relative if we were denied the right, and comfort, of grief?

Acknowledge our loss. Acknowledge it to ourselves, allow ourselves to be sad that we missed out on this experience. We may not have the understanding of friends, family or our partners, but allow ourselves our own understanding.

When we 'let it out' in this way then we can move forward. We can look at our children and be grateful that they are here with us, no matter how they arrived. We can truly count our blessings and feel bitter-sweet about our scars.

Yes, there is such a thing as post-natal depression. I'm not denying that. But this is caused by hormone imbalances. I wonder how much of what many women feels is more related to their experiences of birth and, as Debby said, how they were treated during these experiences. Maybe a little more respect and involvement in the decisions might be a vital step towards reducing the incidence of post-natal depression diagnosis.


Posts: 39 | From: Perth, WA | Registered: Dec 1999
Scottrudi
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posted 01 November 2000 08:13 PM      Profile for Scottrudi   Email Scottrudi   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Beautifully written.... I strongly agree with these comments. Care providers strongly influence our reactions to events and can help or hinder our journey towards healing. I had an elective CS after planning a homebirth. I was devastated and felt like a real failure..... however, I was really pleased by the experience, we were treated with respect and every choice was ours, I am extremely grateful.... also I was delighted to find someone who understood how I felt(the girls known as CARES SA and Birthrites) who could listen and validate my feelings..... without these women I would still believe that I am an ungrateful, useless mad cow!!!! Thank you..........

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Posts: 5 | From: Darlington, S.A., Australia | Registered: Sep 2000
James
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posted 03 November 2000 07:13 PM           Edit/Delete Post
I am a GP who has a small obstetric practice and I also work as a medical educator with the College of General Practitioners. I agree with your thoughts Debbie. There is no doubt that modern medicine has a culture of treating patients as a vehicle for disease. This is the disease model of medicine. The alternative is patient centred medicine which sees the person as the centre of the medical encounter. There is in the teaching of general practice a significant thrust towards "patient centred medicine". From a doctor's point of view it is emotionally costly to genuinely empathise and connect with patients. For a doctor he/she will connect with many people each day at a significant point in the patient's life. This is not normal. Most of us only make this type of connection with others occassionally. Many/all doctors manage this by emotionally distancing themselves from their patients thus the common experience that Debbie describes in interacting with doctors. We may operate from a position of power but there is also a vulnerablity in being so exposed to emotionally charged situations. I find that I can only manage half a day of clinical encounters each day and still genuinely engage people.
I think though that as Debbie says, there are considerably more consequences to how a labour is facilitated than just a physically safe outcome. I know that the birthing experience is core to how a woman feels about herself and has a major impact on the building blocks of the mother child relationship.

<felicity>
unregistered


posted 05 April 2002 12:54 PM           Edit/Delete Post
I was interested to read the comments of both Debby and Jackie. I had an unexpected CS nearly two years ago, followed by chronic nipple thrush and then mastitis leading to an abscess, all started I'm sure by the traumatic birth and antibiotics after surgery. It took me three months to get the breastfeeding thing under control, thankfully I got through it all and breastfed for 15 months. I look back on the breastfeeding now as a positive thing. But once all that madness was over, I found myself dwelling on the CS. I thought I was alone until I found Zeena Armstrong's book in the local library whilst trying to find self-help books to cure the insomnia I developed once I started to think about my daughter's birth. Armstrong's book (now out of print) led me on a path of discovery and ultimately to this site which has been my salvation. I'm hoping to have another baby next year and I know that, whatever happens in the end, I am going to make decisions this time, not just leave it up to everyone else.
What interested me about your posts were the comments about PND and PTSD. At 15 months I went to see my ob to ask some questions and try to deal with the issues I was facing. I caused my ob great dismay when I said that I felt no-one had much time for these issues and that there was an attitude of "what's your problem, you've got a beautiful baby". My ob's view was that I did have post traumatic stress disorder. In my professional life I've dealt with people with PTSD and felt this was possible also. I was certainly depressed, no doubt about that. Anyway, that visit (which was rather confrontational) led me to write a lengthy letter outlining everything that happened to me, including things that happened in the absence of the doctor, and every little emotion I felt about the experience, and issues about a further birth. I received a three page reply. We don't agree on everythimg and I may still go to another doctor, but I felt it was a very worthwhile exercise and very much part of the healing process.
What I am saying is that I believe also that PTSD, PND or whatever you want to call it is very common in women with our experiences. I know most of the women involved in brthrites recommend a change of doctor for a vbac and I understand why. But we need to make sure the doctors who do CS's know how we feel EVEN IF WE DON'T GO BACK TO THEM FOR OUR NEXT BIRTH. It's easy to go elsewhwere and never speak to the first doctor again. Obs are used to being thanked, that's what you're meant to do when you have a baby. And you can't deal adequately with CS issues at a six week checkup. In my case the consultation and correspondence was really hard but very worthwhile, and I'd like to think the doctor learnt something from it too. We need to educate our doctors about the psychological effects of unwanted caesarians.
Thanks for a great forum
Felicity

<Caz>
unregistered


posted 18 June 2002 09:45 AM           Edit/Delete Post
I'd be very interested to know if there has been a study done on PND and how women felt about their birth. I don't think it is necessarily a caesarean that can make us feel "robbed". I felt that way after being sold on an epidural (I mean really talked into it rather than being encouraged in how well I was coping with my breathing) for my first labour and then having forceps because I was so totally numb I had no idea how to push.

A lot of what I felt about that birth was to do with how I was treated (including being hooked up to an IV too short to let me reach my baby and left alone like that, with useless legs, in recovery for what seemed for ever) and although I didn't have PND I am now dealing with those issues again with a fourth baby on the way.

My second labour was totally natural and I was pretty much allowed to do what I wanted to so I have at least one positive birth experience to help me through.

Then I had an elective CS for my third baby because she was breech and over 10lb but I felt much more positive about that birth because I was treated very well and it was a decision I was involved in.

I am now trying for a VBAC and worried that I will feel out of control again. It is hard to get across to some people how important the birth experience is, they just want to see a healthy baby arrive, and of course we ALL do! But how that baby arrives means a lot to me and I don't think I am being selfish to want to experience all the pain and work of a natural labour.

The thing is we all want different things, some women are happy to have repeat CS, some want an epidural straight up, others want to bury or eat the placenta while I don't even want to see it. I think what we all have in common is that we just want to be heard and treated with respect.

Debby
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posted 18 June 2002 06:38 PM      Profile for Debby   Email Debby   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Caz,

It is funny I was thinking just about the separation between process and outcome today.

Many birth practitioners and others for that matter place all the emphasis on the outcome of birth ie. a healthy baby, without realising that the process - labour - can be just as important.

On the PND studies I am not specifically familiar with ones that deal with degrees of birth empowerment and its affect on PND - although it would be an interesting study. But I did find a study done by a lady (unfortuneately I can only remember her first name Deborah) from one of the universitys in South Australia or Victoria, that looked at women's impressions of their csec.
What she found was that most women were happy with the outcomes of their csec and believed they were adequately informed of the reasons. However I pointed out to her one flaw in her study - she only interviewed women in the first 12 weeks after they delivered.

I told her that in that first 12 weeks I would have given the same response - because I didn't know any better. It wasn't until some months later that I started reading and realised how disempowered I had been and that my labour was clinically managed to a far greater degree than was medically indicated. She accepted the point I made and indicated she would look at it for future study - I don't know if she has or not.

Debby

Posts: 9 | From: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: Mar 2002


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