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Author Topic: vbac after 3 c/s <neat> unregistered posted 12 April 2006 07:03 PM           Hi I'm a mum of 5,aged 12,7,4,2,and 8mths.I had 2 normal hospital deliveries with my fist two bubs(the 2nd labour only 2 hrs)Number 3 was c/s due to placenta previa,number 4 was c/s due to hospital ERROR,and number 5 was c/s due to ob refusal for requested vbac.Planning on more (always planned on large family) wanting vbac,not expecting yet,researching everything I can on vbac after 3c/s.Live in rural NSW (5 hrs from sydney, about 3 from canberra).Searching for vbac FRIENDLY midwives,ob,hosp,etc.. would love some info and any advice on where to go( realise we may have to travel far distances but thats no major problem)also any info on thinning lower segment would be welcome my email z1j2d3k4am@bigpond.com JenBen Member Member # 520 Rate Member posted 14 April 2006 10:13 AM              Hi, we had a lady recently at the birthrites meeting in Perth who had a VBAC after 3 c-sections. An absolutley awesome story. She had a major battle with the hospital and obs but managed through sheer determination and the help of an independent midwife. I will see if I can put her in touch with you. cheers Jennie Posts: 51 | From: perth | Registered: Sep 2005 <aeneas> unregistered posted 17 April 2006 10:27 AM           hi i would really like to be put in touch with this lady as i am in the same position and need some support i dont want another ceasear after 2 and i want a large family any info would be appreciated thanks <neat> unregistered posted 19 April 2006 06:04 PM           Jennie I have heard there was a lady in perth who recently achieved a vba3c.Id be very interested in hearing more, we lived in WA a few years ago.From what I have been reading lately they seem far more vbac acceptable than here (nsw).Guess I could always head back over that way again! JenBen Member Member # 520 Rate Member posted 21 April 2006 12:14 PM              Hi, I have passed the message onto my midwife (who was her midwife) as I have no way of getting directly in touch with her myself. I don't think they are very accepting of VBAC here, no more then else where. This lady went to the major public hospital here and just refused her consent for a caesar. As they were a public hospital and the biggest they could not refuse to take her on. She did her research and so was in a strong position. She also hired an independent midwife as her advocate and support person. Hopefully she will get in touch with you soon as I don't really want to say too much about someone elses story. It is a pretty amazing tale anyway. cheers Jennie Posts: 51 | From: perth | Registered: Sep 2005 <neat> unregistered posted 22 April 2006 05:41 AM           Hi again jennie, THats how naive and exhausted i was last time,i didnt even know i could refuse to consent.i was running out of time and hospitals in area(i tried 4 hospitals)One hospital was all for a vbac,unfortunately their head ob which oversees another hospital(that i already tried)refused me at both.It seems the only ones who feared ruptures was the obs, the midwives and gps were all for it.Which goes to show they dont really think much of their own sewing ability.I see many shearers cut open a sheep(accidently)and their whole gut etc.. falls on the board, the shearing picks it up,shoves it back in(dirty hands an all)holds skin together(sometimes enlisting help from another shearing or rousie)and then stitches it back up, then usually says things like she'll be right mate. That sheep usually ends up back again next season and if its a ewe it'll have a lamb with it.No c/s,no rupture!Whats that say for the fearful obs. I know my fear of another c/s is way higher than a fear of rupture.Unless i find a fearless ob I'll be avoiding them like a plague.And I look forward to hearing from the midwife.I think I have a far better chance with midwives than obs (and I wouldn't like to rely on the shearer either,although he'd be more sure of his work than an ob) neat <Heather Gray> unregistered posted 06 May 2006 05:15 AM           Hello, This is Heather here. I am lady in Perth who had the most amazing VBAC after three "no-faith" caesareans thanks to all the wonderful support of birthrites. Yes it was a stressful fight all the way (which it should not have to be) but it was worth it. I would do it all again in a heartbeat over a caesarean - and in fact wish I could repeat the birth because it was such a wonderful experience. My four beautiful, healthy children are 8, 5, 2 and ten weeks. I am only 4'10" tall and get VERY, VERY large in my pregnancies. My size scares doctors and I literally stop traffic - at shopping centres, public swimming pools, school - wherever I go. This last pregnancy I had three shocked women approach me at the local swimming pool. One asked if I was having triplets because she was very large with twins and wasn't as big as me!!!! First baby - GP then send to an OB at the end as I got very large- they said large baby (from ultrasound) still not engaged at 39.5 weeks - it will never happen vaginally - elective caesar. My first baby girl, 7lb 10oz, 34cm head. Second baby - private OB, said he'd let me have a "trial of scar"- last weeks had runs of contractions and stayed overnight in hospital a few times- 10 days early I went into labour - doctor said after only 5 hours " only 1.5 cm dilated, head not engaged, big baby, it will never happen vaginally" - another caeasar. (after I agreed to the caesar my membranes ruptured and contractions were full on but they never checked my cervix they just rushed me off to surgery.) Another beautiful baby girl 6lb 14oz 35cm head. Third baby - same OB as second baby - Yes, yes, I know stupid me - said he would let me try again - HA! HA! - 18 days early labour starts - they so don't belive I'd deliver vaginally thay put me in a ward room - after just a few hours he gets my husband on side and stands over me as I'm in tears telling me I have to have another caesar - high head again, big baby - I ask them both to leave and call friends trying for support - no help from those who have birth vaginally and not had caesars - finally agree in fit of tears to caesar. Beautiful baby boy 6lb 10oz, 36 cm head. (I must end quickly now - baby crying to be fed) My third baby girl (VBA3C) was my biggest 7lb 11oz 35 cm head. Born three hours after my waters broke and and after two weeks of pre labour. Must go - but happy to talk more later. Bye for Now Heather <neat> unregistered posted 08 May 2006 05:19 AM           Hi Heather, great to hear from you.Congratulations on the new addition to your family.Im sure it was a struggle to achieve the birth you wanted but certainly worth it.My youngest is 9 months in a few days so Im getting closer to the time Im usually expecting again, so Ive been busy finding out all I can.Im feeling both excited and anxious about the next one already.Living in a fairly remote area makes it hard at times to get enough info and even a little bit of support so Im expecting a battle also.But at least Ill be able to go into battle better prepared this time.I understand the tears you shed heading to theatre,I was a mess and cried and sobbed,trying to hind my face from my anxious family.I just wanted to run,run,run.While waiting the long wait for op,which was sceduled at 2(finally collected me at 3)I was pretty dehydrated by then,I kept looking around for escape route.Would anyone notice a heavily expectant women running down the road in flapping hospital gown and hat crying hysterically.I never got to find that out as I really had no where to run to.The anethiest was a very arrogant man, even the staff did not like him,he was not their regular.Not a good start.They had the usual troubles with inserting cannula, I think they enjoy it(i had a student attempting the job at one stage)I had a nice nurse there, holding my hand,while another pushing on my throat (not a good feeling,hate my throat being touched as I had a thyroid removal(1st mistake was allowing them to take that) when I was expecting my third child(didnt know we were expecting,was told it was impossible to concieve my thyroid levels so high)Ended up having c/s number 1 at 36 weeks due to placenta prev g/3 bub was 7pound1, number 2 c/s was because ultrasound tech gave date to hosp as being 1 month after our date.Membranes ruptered,they would not believe my dates,(apparently you can have a period and not notice your having one thus making you think your pregnant,and then that puts your dates out,according to ultrasound tech!!)stopped labour,waited a week,started to bleed they then rush me in for another emerg c/s.Bub just under 6 pounds,sent to major hosp with hole in lung(swallowed blood etc...no squeeze out)Major hosp declared what i already said bub not that prem.He was smaller than my others,by my dates he was 3 weeks early and I was working on property till day before I had him.Apparently blood loss from small clot where placenta lifted slightly.Guess they should not have stopped labour.)Sorry,back to 3rd c/s I refused any forms of pain relief and any blood transfusions(that alone kinder ticked them off)After I came around in recovery I couldnt believe the raw pain(unlike other 2 c/s,the first one left me in shock well before the c/s,the 2nd was like there was no c/s and I had no pain relief then)They told me it was different because everyone has their own technique!Anyway I cant fit any more here but I still went home 2 days later,bub was 8pound7,I was in agony,emotional,angry but I wasnt gonna tell them that.So home I went,recovery was slow,but always wanted large family so sticking with plan, but plan next time not involving obs.Hope to hear from you again soon. <Heather Gray> unregistered posted 08 May 2006 01:34 PM           Hello, It's Heather back again. Great to hear from you. Sounds like you caesars were about as much fun as mine. The vaginal birth of my baby girl has healed a lot of the pain for me. I am still very angry because none of my caesars were medically necessary at the time they were done - they just convincd me that it would become necessary at some stage and it was better and safer not to wait. After a very quick three hour labour (though not painless) I vaginally birthing my biggest baby. I now believe I could have vaginally birthed all my babies if the doctors had just stepped back, taken a breathe and had some faith - there was never any danger - it wouldn't have hurt to wait. My first three babies/caesars were at a private hospital with a private doctor. As no private doctor would let me try for a VBAC after three caesars, my third baby was born at a public hospital - but the key was a very strong, courageous private midwife and the wonderful support of those at birthrites. The public hospital were in no way happy for me to attempt a VBAC, they wanted a booked caesars, but I stood my ground. If I was going to have a fourth caesar it would be for a definate medical reason. I was never against having a caesar - it just had to be for a good reason, otherwise I wasn't sure I would be able to cope afterwards. I know there were risks - I did VBAC educational classes- and my own research. But I planned to help minimise the risks by having my baby in well equipped hospital with surgeons and anaethetists and paediatricians at hand, and agreed to have the epidural line and bung (for intravenous medication) all in place when I went into labour to save time if I needed emergency surgery. You initially asked about thinning lower segment. When I had my second consult at the hospital during my pregnancy the doctor had requested the notes only from my last (third) caesar from my previous doctor. She showed me where it said "lower segment thin" and shook her head saying this wasn't good and put me at a greater risk of rupture. I left extrememly upset. A few days later I recieved all the medical records that I had requested (not just the last caesar) and it said after my second caesar "lower segment ballooned". I believe this is worse than "thinning" - but my waters had broken, I was in full on labour, and I now believe it they had checked my cervix on the operating table they would have seen that I was fuly dilated, and I would not have had the caesar. With my third caesar after the tears and forced consent I asked him to make sure he did a "tidy-up" of my scar at all levels. He assured me he did a very good job cleaning up the scar tissue and for all his faults as a "no-faith vaginal birth obstetrician" I did believe that he was a good surgeon. Therefore I always considered my risk to be no greater that that of someone who had had only one caesar. (perhaps I should even write a letter of thanks for his good sewing job - Ha! Ha! Ha!!!!!!!) Also something to consider is - how many women who have had a successful VBAC without rupture have also had a thinning lower segment or ballooned lower segment that a surgeon never knew about because he didn't cut her open?? Food for thought. Heather JenBen Member Member # 520 Rate Member posted 08 May 2006 07:00 PM              Hi Heather, what does a ballooned lower segment mean? That is written on my notes for my first and fingers crossed only caesar. Cheers Jennie Posts: 51 | From: perth | Registered: Sep 2005 <Heather> unregistered posted 09 May 2006 04:02 AM           Hi Jennie, As I understand it a "thinning lower segment" means just that - that the uterus is thinner in this area and therefore and area of weaker tissue. The ballooning is when the uterus "bulges" out at a particular area usually where the tissue is thinner or weaker and can then go on to rupture. The OB sees this when he cuts you open before he cuts the uterus. As I said previously no-one can say how much "thinning" or "ballooning" occurs in succesful VBAC's. Also how much occurs in labours with no previous caesars? I am also unsure how relevant this is to a next pregnancy because if they go through the same scar tissue doesn't this change it all again? Even if you didn't have "thinning" or ballooning" the last time - could you have it this time? I've never had my questions answered when I was pregnant and doing my research. I too would love these simple questions answered. As I said before, I never placed my risk of rupture higher than someone who had had one caesar because each caesar was done through the same scar tissue (which I always made sure they would do) and the OB says he did a good tidy-up at the last caesar. This however was not the view of medical profession who told me that three caesars put at a higher risk. Even without all my questions answered I still knew there was a risk of rupture - and it would have been foolish to think otherwise. I personally was prepared to take this risk but wanted to take it at a public hospital well prepared for emergency caesars and not a private hospital without staff on standby. I also thought that this would mean I would be able/allowed to push the limits further and increase my chances of a successful VBAC. I did however know that the staff at the public hospital were not happy with my decision not to have booked caesar so I had my own private midwife. It is so sad to have to say that I felt I could not trust what I thought hospital staff would tell me in labour. As it had happened threee times before, I felt they would tell me whatever they thought I needed to know to consent to a caesar - and not necesarily the exact truth. If anyone has any further information on thinning or ballooning - and it associated risk or revelevancy I would be very interested. Cheers Heather PS: Has anyone noticed the rediculous hours at which I post my first and this reply? Ah - such is the life of a mother! <Melanie> unregistered posted 09 May 2006 02:10 PM           Hi to all, This is my first visit to this site, i wish i found it earlier. Your stories and thoughts are so inspirational. My story is one of familiarity. I too have had 3 c-sections. The first a classical cesar (just my uterus, i have a nice outer horizontal scar)due to pre term delivery at 28 weeks. The second, i was told i just HAD to have another cesar (normal one), i stupidly didn't even think of asking otherwise. My 3rd, i possed the question of a trial by scar but i was quickly dismissed, hence c-section 3! I am now expecting number 4 in September and would dearly love a natural. I am booked into a public hospital in Brisbane and i am going to request to attempt to labour naturally, i know they will disapprove or try and refuse to let me but if i don't consent to a cesar they won't have a choice...do they? I want to be closely monitored because as much as i want a natural i am obviously prepared to have a cesar if the baby or i get into trouble. I would love some advise to my situation or if anyone knows of a midwife who could be my advocate here in brisbane. Thanks for listening, not many people understand. Mel